"Challenge to Russell Means' anti-Christian bias"

This is the thread title - to which I respond.

My words are "The BELIEF system called Christianity is a control tool created by humans for the control of humans."

So than I welcome Russell Means anti Christian bias.

"Think for yourself - Question authority"
"Think for yourself - Question authority"
"Think for yourself - Question authority"
"Think for yourself - Question authority"
"Think for yourself - Question authority"
This quote is from Timothy Leary

excerpt from dailyom.com

"The Big Horn Medicine Wheel is made of limestone slabs and boulders and is about ninety-eight feet across. The central cairn is about twelve feet in diameter and over two feet high. It was constructed on this high mountain plateau at an elevation of 10,500 feet in the early 1400s. This huge earth altar was used for many things, especially as a solar and stellar marking point.

The three outlying cairns at Big Horn align with three stars prominent in the summer sky: Aldebaran in the constellation Taurus, Rigel in Orion, and Sirius, the Dog Star, in Canis Major. These three stars appear as the biggest and brightest in the sky at the latitude of the Big Horn Mountains. Eddy explains that this site must have been an important mountain observatory in the twelfth to fourteenth centuries. The three stars rise almost twenty-eight days, or one moon, apart from one another, suggesting a connection with Big Horn's twenty-eight long spokes. And in line with the idea that the medicine wheel inspired the design for the Great Medicine Lodge for the Sun Dance, there is persuasive evidence that Big Horn is a good marker for the summer solstice along the alignment of the central stone cairn with the distinctive outlying one. That is the time when many tribes came together to hold their Sun Dance ceremony with its days of ritual, fasting, feasting, and prayer. "}}}

why do i bring this up?.. because the BIGHORN MEDICINE WHEEL.. was an astrological calendar for the indigenous people to decide when the sun dance took place,etc.. and was aligned to the ORION= queen snake empire and SIRIUS... canus kanus dog tribes headquarters.. ie.. EA , ANU. etc.. the SSSSSS & RRRRRRR.... controllers STILL ON THIS PLANET!.. or hybrids thereof.. ALL PEOPLES on this planet must begin to realize how they have been controlled if there is to BE SOVEREIGNTY FOR HUMANITY ON THIS PLANET!!....

http://www.henrymakow.com/mankind_held_ ... atani.html
FRITZ SPRINGMEIER like PELTIER is still in jail for writing his books.. one about the ILLUMINATI BLOODLINES and SATANISM..


ah ho WIOLAWA

Been a few weeks ago when I had a couple human beings who call themselves Jehovah Witnesses knock upon my door. They desired to discuss their book & prophecy with me. So they & I discussed their book & prophecy. I was amazed they actually listened. They left without inviting me to their building or inviting me to join their Organization which I will not do, nor even left any of their literature with me.

For some reason they seemed to conclude I knew a whole lot about their book that is actually many various books of the Israelites & I knew a whole lot of about prophecy. I just personally don't enjoy Organized Religion & even more so if it is combined with Organized Politics of this world. If I remember correctly the JV's are non political.

All & all it was all friendly so it was ok. As long as they don't think I have to join their Organization or they start trying to live my life for me we get along fine. Always amazed when someone thinks I have to join their Organization, try live my life for me, try to tell me what to think, or think they own me in some way.

to SHADOW DANCER.. JEHOVEH'S Witnesses.. are NOT BENIGN.. i have a group around the planet of dragonslayers.. and a few years back one of the main illustrators for their magazine explained to us how her drawings were to imitate the laws and rules of SATANISM taught to her by her family and the Jehoveh Witnesses.. .. being born into a family that was into that religion.. it took her a long time to escape.. she had a horse farm and they were always attacking her & her horses for leaving their group.. with what you would call the BLACK ARTS.. those type of groups always go after the animals you love first.. and the people you love first.....she explained also what they did to her horses as well as herself.. very frightening.. ah ho WIOLAWA

I am but a small and pitiful human being... but I know that no man stands between the Tunkasila and me... and that is all I need to know. All my relations...

I stop believing in religion a long time ago...it has been used to keep us in line,asleep and passive...while they have brutalize people all over...and yes i believe in the snakes...it explain a lot of the misery and chaos on this planet...we are up against a deadly inhuman enemy...so thanks wiolawa for your bravery and i thank ghostwarrior for his wise words...I belive the Great Mystery will have the final say all in all.

Wioiawa, perhaps you didn't read that two human beings knocked upon my door that call them selves JV's. Perhaps you didn't read I had a discussion with them about prophecy concerning a book they read that is actually many books of the Israelites. I have no idea why these two human beings call them selves JV's nor any do I have any idea why they joined the JV's as that actually isn't any of my business if they join any Organization out of their own freewill choices.

Perhaps you didn't read that I didn't mind talking to them about those things just as long as they didn't think I was under any obligation to join their Organization. I personally never join anything.

Any individual person, groups of persons, Organizations of persons. or Nations of persons upon the earth can always be far less than benign. Any individual, groups of persons, or Organizations of persons, Nations of persons can be far less than benign depending on their circumstances. Human nature.

Human nature concludes if you put two human beings together sparks will fly one way or the other eventually.

I didn't discuss with these two people Native prophecies that I have studied over the years, listened to the comments of those discussing those prophecies, discussing those prophecies with others, nor did I discuss with them the many prophecies I have studied of other people of others lands that I have discussed with others.

My tendency is to discuss prophecy with people & let them form their own thoughts about things.

I am somewhat aware of the history of the JV's as an organization or at least as much as I care to be aware of their history as an organization, & I have met other JV's many times over throughout my journey through this world.

I live upon Creator's planet where there are now more than 6 billion human beings. Since I live upon Creator's planet where there are more than 6 billion human beings there is the likely hood of probability that I will meet a portion of those more than 6 billion human beings even though it is a small portion. Living upon Creator's planet in the now of things even when I came into this world the four races of human beings were already present in this land & races had already intermarried. That was quite some time ago even though to me it only seems like brief seconds ago at times.

Even though in the thing called time that seems like a long time ago even back then by the age of 8 I had concluded I was living in a crazy/insane world. That is way to young to conclude all one is doing is living in a crazy/insane world. At whatever age I became conscious I was this thing called, Alive, whether it was 3 or 4 years of age I noticed I was studying people. I was studying my family, neighbors, later teachers at their style of schools, & other children at schools.

And in that time there isn't anything that has changed my conclusion that I am doing anything other than living in a crazy/insane world that I consider according to the prophecies of many peoples will do nothing except get even more crazier & insane even to the possibility the human race will come close to exterminating it's self by their own hands even though natural disasters could play into these things also.

My tendency is not to worry about these things as if they happen in my life time they happen. If they don't happen in my life time they don't happen. Regardless I am in a mortal flesh body that only has so much time upon Creator's earth no matter how one looks at things.

When I leave there world what does this mean to me other than I no longer have to have their money to live life, nor render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, taxes/tribute for his worldly empire upon the earth in order to live my life.

In regards to human life all human wrong doing or outright evil is limited to this world regardless if that wrong doing is committed by an individual human being, groups of human beings, Organizations of Human beings, or Nations of human beings. I don't pretend that I know everything about human history upon the earth nor do I even want to know everything about human history upon the earth. But I do know if human beings think they are going to save this world they just may be fooling themselves if they don't know human nature, or history either one.

As far as I know it isn't my job to judge the human race so why should I bother judging the human race. I am only lowly man/human being upon the earth that has been treated to life by Creator & life upon Creator's planet. I am merely a part of Creator's creation. Within the Time Structure of the thing called time I am also a bill payer & tax payer that lives under a European system of Govt that according to my readings about those that founded this European system of Govt they patterned their Govt/Nation after the Roman Republic that would become an Empire.

They became an Empire through their warmongering that was financed through their Taxes of people including taxing people in the Nations they conquered. According to my reading most of the founders of their Nation were Freemasons. According to my reading many researchers state the Freemasons are an Occult/Satanic Secret Society that at the very top levels worship the Spirit of Evil often called The Devil. That is just according to things I have read so it is up to any individual to do their own reading & form their own conclusions.

There wasn't any implied contract on my umbilical cord when I came into this world that I had to actually join anyone's Organized Religion or Organized anything else of their world. There wasn't any implied contract on my umbilical cord when I came into this world that I have to save their world. My life was given to me by Creator not their Nation or their world.

I love & enjoy getting out into Creator's creation & almost to the point it is like their world doesn't even exist. Other than living my life in their world I don't have anything to do with their world other than help those I can help in the ways I can help them should they ask for my help regardless of history or race. If people ask for my help in ways I cannot help them then the answer is no.

I don't concern myself about Satanists or Occultists as human wrong doing & evil are limited to this world as this Universe is merely a Dimension that Creator watches & listens to as Creator has being doing all along. May often seem like Creator is uninvolved to people but Creator knows exactly what is going on at all times in any Dimensions of Creator's creation.

In one post here the person who started the topic that they are building a world of Global Enslavement. That is exactly what they are doing & what they have been doing all along. That is their desire to enslave the whole world to their worldly system. All I have done for myself is Spiritually Reject their world as my consideration is their world is what their world is, but their world isn't it at all.

THANKYOU SHADOW DANCER for your comments.. i do believe this.. that the NWO wants a sacrificial religion like satanism.. which will be called a new name .. however the SATANISTS.. despise.. CHRISTIANITY>. years ago i went to the SATANIC websites to see what and how they believed.. i was horrified to say the least.. many of the dracos serpents( who reside in this religion-) were expressing their true feelings about CHRISTIANS.. for some reason they greatly FEAR this religion( perhaps who they call JESUS was a great leader?).. which i find to be literature.. council of nicea constructed the bible .....however,the satanists described many ways they eventually want to torture and kill christians.. this is their .. PLAN.. im certain.. infact the murders of CHRISTIAN NEWSOM and his girlfriend who also had the last name CHRISTIAN.. in KNOXVILLE.. were SATANIC MURDERS.. blamed on 5 innocent black people ( mainly by a black man where they put a fingerprint on a blank envelope in the victims car).... it was a terrible crime. but had ALL the earmarkings of SATANISM.. they are masters at laying their CRIMES on other innocent people.. just as our country and leaders blammed the IRAQ people for 9-11.. who were VERY INNOCENT>. this is a planetary wide problem.. that is not easily going to be fixed but eventually it WILL BE.. ah ho WIOLAWA

There are stories/accounts Jesus lived in this Hemisphere in the book, He Walked the America's, but that would have been a time before the land(s) was known as America. The Mormon's in their book say he lived with & taught Tribes.

Jesus never instructed his original disciples to kill/murder anyone or steal anything including their land from anyone. Jesus knew human beings would do evil in his name eventually as he warned about False Teachers, Wolves in Sheep's Clothing, False Prophets, & those he would call The Workers of Inquity.

Man of himself just took Jesus, turned him into the business of politics & religion, & began murdering & stealing in his name instead of Caesar's name or subsequent Kings to come instead of murdering & stealing in their own name. I've been booted off Christian Websites that think they now have the right to murder people in other lands & their ancestors had the right to murder off Tribes & steal their lands when I told them Jesus never gave them any such rights at all.

They just try to hide the evil of their history & the evil they do now behind politics & religion saying they are doing these things for Jesus. And yet that is what God said they would doing, killing in his name thinking they are doing him a favor.

There isn't much difference between their Nation & the Empire of Rome as the Founders of the Nation, according to my reading, stated they patterned their Nation after Rome.

To me it is one thing for any person to do wrong doing in their own name & yet another thing to do wrong doing in the name of Creator/God as if they are doing Creator a favor by their own personal wrong doing no matter how small. To me personally the Tribes & even remote Tribes today lived in the purest form of love for each other for at least the longest time without all the manipulations of this world now.

All peoples including the Tribes have had Creator's spiritual gift of forgiveness & methods of making peace between themselves. All are but visiters upon this planet & all are but passing through this lifetime in this strange world that human beings have now wrought upon the earth even though long ago spoken about by Prophets of the Native Tribes, the Prophets of the Israelites, & the Prophets of many other peoples.

!

My interpretation of "the last shall be first and the first shall be last." One my the goals in life has been to try and understand the purpose of life and the ways of the spirit, and hopefully to try and achieve some knowledge to this end. To know instead of just believe. It is my opinion that achieving such knowledge may be the only instance where the aggressive go getters will always be at the back of the queue. Knowledge of the spirit I feel can come to those within religion and also to those who take responsibility for their own spiritual welfare outside of it. It comes to those who try and subdue their ego and try to serve others with true humility and compassion. Aggressive go getters include the misguided people who think that to enter the kingdom of heaven their religion teaches, they have to go out and try to impose their religious beliefs on others. They do appear most cruel, but I do think that they believe they are "saving" people when they try to convert them and are therefore doing them a great service. To convince them otherwise would not be easy.
I was brought up within a Christian environment. I went to Church, joined youth organisations attached to churches and attended Sunday school. The Sunday school belonging to the methodist church I attended, was in a house across the road. Part way through the service the children use to leave the church, cross the road and go to the house to be taught a bible story. Each week I would cross to find a little dog which always seemed to be waiting for me. It used to growl at my feet, and being terrified it was going to bite me I used to walk home instead.
This seems like a silly story but I often mentally thank that little dog, it mean't that instead of being instilled with religious dogma (no pun intended), I am able explore that which makes sense to me and not feel that I am risking my immortal soul in doing so.

Though I have been lurking for sometime, only yesterday did I take the step and join the group.
Though I do not find agreement with Russell 100% of the time I can understand his positions which isnt hard to do, just "listen" to what he actually says. Might learn somehting. I do.
What I have been reading seems that everyone has only heard the perverted versions of Chrisitanity.
I had a wonderful intelligent and wise Bible teacher Dr. Gene Scott (now departed). What I like so much about Russell is that I can see so many things in him as Dr Scott was. Dr Scotts credentials included a PHd in the Philophies of Education, he was, a teacher.
Here might be some helpful insights into determining Christian perversion
First off (and this is Biblical) God has a bet going with the ones refeered to as the Dennisons of Eturnity that he will find those willing to be servants (I have lost a bunch of you already) These servants will replace those angels who fell with the corrupted one.
God does not want "everyone" "Why would God want to spend eturnity with a bunch of assholes" one of Docs splendid comments. But it is fact. look up the answer Jesus gave to the deciples when they asked why he spoke in parables.
God called out his chosen people from all the ethnic peoples of the world befor the earth was formed.
Jews are not the CHOSEN people they are however in simple terms his I told you so people.
The difference bewteen the Old and New Testment is that the Old Testment is a schoolmaster to show us we cannot live up to the laws that would make us a person acceptable. The New is one that shows us that Jesus was the only one who could and by accepting the fact that you cannot by your works satisfy but accept that Jesus by giving his life bought for us Grace and Peace. Grace: unmerited favor (nothing we did has granted us Gods Favor) Peace: sesation of agianstness (God is no longer agianst us) The laws of the Old Testiment are fulfilled in Jesus. We no longer have to worry about the crossing every t or dotting every i of the law. We are freed from it.
We are sinners not because we sin but we sin because we are sinners. It is a condition we are born into.
While giving the laws to Moses on Mt Sini God couldnt see the Indians gowing tobacco and smoking it?
Has Christianity been used as a means of controll?
YOU CAN BET IT HAS!!
Russell is correct in his comments concerning a matriarch society in that we all have to have respect for one another and work together and that is just a tip of the iceburg in workings of such a society. He is trying to save the Lacotah people. I am astounded to hear there are Lacotah that do not like him. We all have the right to be wrong.
Excuse me now. I am going to go riding with my neighbor. I have not been on a horse in many years.
Sally

Outside of the Mormon's in their book saying Jesus lived with Tribes & taught them I am not interested in the Mormon Religion or any other Religion at all. In personal life I will talk to people about Jesus & his teachings but they often become confused when I tell them I am not a Christian, nor belong to any aspect of the Christian Religion, nor belong to any worldly political party.

But I don't judge those who do belong to any type of Religion, Christian or otherwise, nor judge anyone for their own personal politics if they espouse a worldly political philosophy, nor judge anyone for their own personal life & freewill choices they of themselves make for themselves.

I don't have a thing against Russell trying to help his people, nor any person trying to help themselves, or trying to help others in the ways they are able.
Most news I read on the Net I read from prophetic/prophetic fulfillment viewpoint as well as the study of prophecies given long ago by the Tribes, the Israelites, & other people's Prophets to see if they have been fulfilled or possibly fulfilled at this time that is now.

On the first page of this post Russell himself came on and clearly stated he is not "anti-christian". I would suggest that a discussion of religion would be better done on a post labeled so. Instead of on this one, seeing as how it draws incorrect light to something that doesn't exist.

ccwponies

and all identifying themselves as Christians.

How can you identify yourself as such if you have NO CLUE...


Real christian "type" were wiped out by the Catholic 1500 years ago and their texts burned or modified to fit "the Anti Christ" which you now serve...

Few find their way out of the mental trappings within this book called the bible.

Soon - Christians will be singing their battle hyms as they kill the Moslems (once again) - singing we are GODS right hand - healing the world from evil.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Yes I laugh at your stupidity!

PS your satan is my good friend as is christ - understand that and you will have a clue.

PSS To all you Native Americans - Is the great spirit SO STUPID that he had to send the white man to teach you who and what "god" was??? PUKE!

Good to know you are with Russell wisdomtooth, that means you aren't anti-Christian.

I have read through these posts with great interest. The first teachings of all religions should be tolerance... Just look at these last few posts. People should not be so quick to impose their beliefs on others. Especially since all religion is based in faith and since this is so nobody actually truly knows they are right.... Shame on those that do since they are arogant people and nothing good can come of this.

Personally i am not a follower of any religion but was baptised a catholic. My own opinions are my own but who am i to tell someone they are wrong? 99% of all wars are based in religion as it is the guiding line racism steers and justifys itself by. The root of all religion teaches us to love one another. The rest is rubbish. Islam, christianity and Hinduism all include the same prophets etc. They all preach the same message! They are all the same god! Merely different ways to worship him. Hinduism is the only religion i know of that embraces every other religion. a religion of tolerance. Everything else thinks it is right. Chistianity to me is absurd. How can the vatican claim that Jesus is the one true god and the true religion when two thousand years ago it was Jews that had a settled religion and Jesus and his followers were just a splinter group. That was as absurd then as it would be now if i proclaimed I WAS GOD! And yet people 2 thousand years later take every word of the gospel as words of complete truth?

Every persons opinion is important and thats the most important point! You miss that and you have missed the message completely. If i believed in a god it would be that there is a higher force there that kicked off the big bang and answers the questions in evolution that still riddle us. If anything it is Native American beliefs that make the most sense to me. They are not judgemental nor biased merely the belief there is some greater force than man. Certainly not any preached dogma i have ever heard. To me the Torah, Bible, Koran etc. are just the superstitions of man written in a book. The messages in all are good but not when scrutinized and twisted. But most importantly that is only my opinion and that is all it will ever be. Each to his own and respect to all...

When you travel across the great plains you understand that you are but a very tiny ember in the cosmic fire of life. At least I do. Most see only desolation and emptiness me I see the beauty and the bounty the Great Mystery created for my People. I do not see it with eyes of greed and rape but with eyes of love and nurturing because that is what was placed into my heart.

I need no book to tell me how to live my life, I had living examples of how to live my life. All of whom gave me good words but like most in my youth, words I wanted nothing to do with, even so Tunkasila and the spirits of my Ancestors have never failed me, nor Wi, nor Maka Ina when I have called upon them with a humble heart and a spirit full of pain. I wish I could tell all those who gave to me this gift thank you... and someday I will when I journey to the spirit world.

I need no man to interpret what I wish to speak of to Tunkasila.

I need no church to pray in because the whole world to me is sacred.

☼ ή ﻉ ❤

first... i have to say i appreciate all the thought and time that went towards these posts and i thank you for sharing your thoughts/knowledge.

it just seems that words complicate things. most likely i will not understand words completely. two people can read the same words and extract different meanings.

by keeping life simple i am humbled and my spirit is full of

ﻉ√٥ﺎ

"it" can not be described by words
"it" is most important...
... and "it" appears many do not know it.

much respect to all... ღkimiღ


for me... truth is in the silence

I once heard a story that a Paiute holy man named Wovoka was visited by Jesus. In this vision Jesus told Wovoka many things that would give our people hope at a time when they needed it. Wovoka passed on this message and was told to show the people a dance which was the Ghost Dance.

Of course the government thought it was an uprising and decided to quell it. (you all know about wounded knee)

But the point im trying to make is, the same thing that Jesus told Wovoka, were the same things he told those whom he met and interacted with in Jerusalem centuries ago...

Love one another...
DO NOT LIE...
embrace the whites as brothers...

sound familiar?

Its not the white man, its their ways that contaminate. Yes their own religion was justified in making our people convert or suffer the consequences. Even to the point of justifying the killing of our people in the name of God. We know this is wrong. True Christianity loves, not hates.

I believe in Jesus. But i see him as an indian, son of the almighty.